Understanding Trauma Responses and Triggers with Emmy Marie

Emmy Marie joins me to dive into trauma responses—how they develop from abusive relationships and ways to manage them. It's crucial to know ourselves better without the weight of judgment or guilt.

We delve into how triggers can remind our bodies of past threats and activate our fight-flight-freeze-fawn responses. Recognizing these patterns allows us to seek safety cues that bring us back to a state of peace instead of shame or blame.

Emmy shares her journey as an abuse survivor turned coach for others healing from similar experiences. With certifications in somatic approaches and complex trauma recovery, she offers one-on-one coaching, courses, and validating social

You can learn more about Emmy here: https://www.instagram.com/bloomingwithemmy

Transcript

Welcome to the relationship recovery podcast hosted by Jessica Knight, a certified life coach who specializes in narcissistic and emotional abuse. This podcast is intended to help you identify manipulative and abusive behavior, set boundaries with yourself and others and heal the relationship with yourself, so you can learn to love in a healthy way. Hello, and thank you so much for being here. Today, I have a special guest She's been here twice before, Emmy Marie, whose Instagram is bloom with Emmy. Emmy is a coach that works with people who are healing from the effects of emotional abuse or abusive relationships and as she'll name in this podcast, she typically works with people that are beginning to get to the other side, or they're rei imagining themselves after abuse.

And we'd use the time today to dive into trauma responses and how we get stuck in trauma, understanding and really believing that an abusive relationship does cause trauma and how we can begin to soften our responses to understand our responses and begin to calm down some of the triggers that we have of course, it's not our fault that we ended up in an abusive relationship or a traumatic situation, but I do feel like it's our responsibility to get to know ourselves and to begin to really be there for ourselves in these moments when things are feeling super triggering I spend a lot of time working on my trauma triggers that could be based from past relationships. They could be based on childhood, and I feel like it's... Just a responsibility to learn how I show up so that I don't have to feel these heavy feelings all the time. But be able to understand them and work through them in a helpful in a useful way. So we'll talk a little bit about the various trauma responses and we'll talk a little bit about healing the triggers around them.

I hope that this episode is helpful to you. I hope that this episode helps you feel normal, and validated, And as always, you can find me at emotional abuse coach on Instagram, you can email me at jessica at jessica connect coaching dot com. And my website, emotional abuse coach dot com. Hi, Annie, thank you so much again for joining me. Hi.

Yes. Thank you so much for having me again. I wanted to just start with you just introducing you, even though people may have listened to you before just in case someone knew is... Jumping on, a little bit about you and what you do. Yes.

Absolutely. Yeah. So my name is Emmy Marie. I am a certified trauma informed coach, and I also have some certifications in somatic, something called Na, which is just related to complex trauma recovery And I'm am also a trauma survivor myself. So my work came about as a response to my own personal journey of healing from an abusive relationship, and for the past 3 and a half years now.

I've been working full time supporting clients on their healing journey, Yeah. So I do, you know, 1 on 1 coaching. I have some courses. I create a lot of content for social media with my handle bloom with Emmy. And I'm pretty much an open book.

So super happy to elaborate on anything or answer any additional questions about that, but that's just kind of a little intro to who I am. Yeah. And I'm gonna have you, like, share all your links and where people can find you, but just as we were chatting just before, Like, 1 of the things that I really muted about the work. That you do. I think it was about 2 years ago.

I was in 1 of your courses. Yeah. It basically normalized trauma, and I think you said that in look for a video that I remember, At least that's how I remember conceptual it or writing it down in my journal is that it is okay that will we went through with trauma, and we could acknowledge it. How when people come to you and they're maybe, like, second guessing that or the fast back, how do you validate that for them that... This is...

A great question. Yeah. So I feel like language is kind of a tricky thing and what's most important to me is validate just recognizing the impact that experiences have had on the human in front of me, whether they want to refer to it as trauma or not. But I do recognize there is certainly, like, a lot of gas lighting that goes on for survivors of things like emotional abuse or other experiences where there wasn't clear, like, physical evidence to 0.2 to say that was traumatic. Or they lived in families or other environments that perhaps normalize the experiences they went through, which have led them to, you know, not being...

Able to really conceptualize it or call it trauma or abuse or whatever it is. So... Yeah. Like, there's so many fantastic definitions of trauma out there that I've learned to the course of, like, my education and just exploration of this field, but 1 that I learned within the last year from a Practitioner called anne Wiser Cornell who has written books and done a lot of really good work with trauma is trauma can also be the result of our needs. Going chronically unmet.

So instead of the, you know, Dsm definition, which I think has to do more with, like, witnessing being a victim of violence or sexual assault or things like that. This definition of needs going chronically unmet can really encapsulate so many things that are traumatic for folks that they aren't seeing represented in other definitions of trauma. And, like, some examples of that, you know, what is a need that can go chronically unmet. There could be the need for love and care from your caregivers. Even if they are meeting your physical needs if they are not showing you love or affection that can lead to trauma, And I think that's referred to a lot as emotional neglect, there's also the need to feel like you can be yourself, Like, you can be your authentic self that you feel safe and belong.

And if you are, you know, being emotionally abused or bullied, that need is a clearly going unmet. And so if those things continue those examples, but other things certainly, Work with this framework as well. Like, when that goes on for a very long time over and over and over again, it can, you know, change our brains and our nervous systems in an attempt to adapt to that and lead to the manifestations of what we call trauma. Yeah. And then trauma starts to show up in our lives And I noticed in my life at least that, like, it starts with triggers.

It starts with me being followed by something, you know, me being either, like, frustrated or me feeling scared, me feeling, questioning things and or me even just adapting, or me not knowing what to say, like, it comes up in all these ways and then I typically have noticed that, especially at the beginning of my healing was that all I did was blame myself. Mh. And I feel like that comes up a lot. And so I would like to talk a little bit about how... We can begin to recognize that we're a trauma response because 1 of the most couple things that I learned in my own healing was that when we're were in a trauma response.

We're not thinking rationally. Like, that ration side of our brain turned off. And so so expect us to be thinking rationally, like, we can't. The pathways are not working in the way that they need to work right now, but that we can learn those triggers, we can find healthy responses. When we are triggered to ourselves, and then obviously, like, begin to look at the trends that are coming up in our relationships or the patterns that are unhealthy.

And therefore, like, recognize abuse. Mh. And so I wanted to talk a little bit more about the trauma responses I'm gonna think about the fight flight freeze spawn. Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah. I guess before we get there just to, like, bring it in a bit better. How do you define or look at triggers when we feel triggered when we feel like that inner like, something's things up that agitation? Yeah. Awesome questions.

So yeah. For me, basically the definition of a trigger is something that's reminding our bodies or our nervous is... Stems of something that happened in the past that was unsafe or threatening to our identity to our well being to our literal existence. And so when a trigger happens, essentially, our body is sensing with any number of senses, you know, sight sound, taste, smell, anything, sensing that there is something threatening in our midst, and our conscious or logical brains might look at that thing. Like, this has happened to be numerous times when I'm on a walk, and I smell a smell is certain laundry detergent.

I can logically know. Okay. I am on walk with my dog. There is I absolutely nothing wrong, but I can get a really intense sense of doom in my stomach, for example. And that, you know, now with all the education I have, I understand is giving me information that, you know, I have come to understand.

I think that laundry detergent was the 1 my ex, my abuser used. So my body remembers that really clearly even though it was a long time ago and is trying to send to me a message. To stay safe. And so the 4 trauma responses we're gonna get into our 4 manifestations of what people tend to do or how we try to achieve a sense of safety when we are faced with a trigger or something that's reminding us of something that was really horrific or terrifying in the past. It sounds like the 1 that I'm hearing is when you said that about laundry detergent, like I almost like, like, walking out a street having that smell and I'm automatically, like, freezing.

Right in being, like, so high about something. Yes. And so I tell people a very similar thing that these come into play when we want to keep... When our bodies trying to keep us safe. Like, that...

Is responding to a... But we can invite that we can, like, allow the response be there. There's nothing wrong with us. Yeah. Mh.

Well, when that, yes. Then, and, like, we're freezing. Mh. What does that actually look like for our bodies? Like, we are stuck.

Right. How do you conceptualize beginning to, like, move through it? Because, obviously, like, just telling someone you're being ridiculous? Right. Right.

They're top Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. So I am not the best at.

Right recalling the literal physiological changes that happen in our bodies and brains. But... Because actually, my favorite way to look at this is through the lens of the Poly theory, which was created by doctor Stephen Porch, and it essentially describes this... Experience of being triggered through a metaphor of a ladder where when we're at the top of the ladder, we are in what can be offered referred as a safe and social nervous system state where if problems arise, we're able to use collaboration, lean on other people, and find a solution without becoming dis regulated or what we would call triggered. And then as we go down the ladder, we are, you know, sensing that the threat is too great for us to tolerate or accept, and our bodies get put into those modes of fight or flight, And I think Fawn can definitely come in here as well, It's not used in the poly theory.

But in that fight flight energy, our nervous system is... Sensing there there is a threat that we need to deal with. And so if we're more prone to fight, which in my understanding some of us are conditioned towards some of these responses, some of it is maybe more natural or nate. I'm not really sure. But with fight, we are getting the sense that we could move towards and fight off that threat, and I'm sure we can get into all the ways back can manifest.

With flight, we are getting the message that we need to run away from the threat. And then if we're sensing that the threat is to great to face. Eventually, our bodies will go into a state of shutdown, which freeze is kind of like, in between fight flight and shutdown, all out shutdown is when we're truly just preparing for death by feeling as little pain as possible. And our our bodies do all of this automatically as functions of our nervous system. But, yeah, when it comes to trying to get out of these things.

To me, it's, like, it can look in so many different ways depending on the person and the context around them. But But I think that number one's things that are helpful are just looking for something that provides you with a sense of safety. And so... But there's still can, like, look, depending on how much awareness you have, how acute the trigger is, where you are. A simple 1 that I like to have on deck is, you know, if I'm finding myself getting triggered at some sort of event where I don't have access to all my tools or all my...

Other the things that help me feel safe, like, excuse myself to, you know, go sit in my car or go to the bathroom and just, like, having a fold on my phone of pictures that bring me a sense of connection or joy or being able to text a friend in those moments or something like that or but, I'm gonna stop going into specifics because there's so much, but ultimately, navigating or reaching towards anything that helps you feel like in this moment, you are safe. But because then your body can slowly, but surely come back to a sense of being okay in the world. Yeah. And, like, I think it goes from in that. In your response.

It's like it's goes from us, like, this dis regulated state that we're in that, like, we are likely also probably judging ourselves. Rem mad at ourselves that we're in. Proper response, but moving us back to a bit of peace. Right of, like, Mh. Making be okay and Like, I used said go into the car, I used to go into...

Like, if I was out or something like that, I'd go to the bathroom. And I would might take a little longer or this might own gross, but I did it anyway. I would, like, find a place to sit on the floor. You know, even if I had a go, Yeah. Found myself back down because that...

You know, when I go back to it, It's like, that's actually what I did as a child when I felt unsafe, and I feel safe as I found a way to brown myself in I journal. So sometimes like, it almost brings us back to the reality I think that we're in. And I really like the idea, like, what we said about, like, having a folder of these pictures that you might look at and, like, it just feels like it's a reminder that the experience that you're in in that moment that's triggering or causing some of these these responses go up that it's like, that's a moment, and this is a moment. And if I can differentiate, then I can see, Okay. This elicit these feelings.

And if this person or this situation elicit these feelings, something that's important for us to look at. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It sounds like you're kinda describing what can happens when you start to just really bring, like, gentle awareness and compassion to yourself, your triggers and your nervous system instead of bringing judgment or shame or telling yourself it's bad to feel that way.

I think it can be really helpful to take the morality out of it basically. And stop seeing triggers as some sort of moral failing. Or any failing of you or your character, your strength. And as dead see as, you know, my body is sensing that I'm not safe for some reason I logically know that doesn't appear to be true right now, but I can't just use logic to over power my body, so I need to be more compassionate and gentle. And, ultimately, you can learn a lot when you have these experiences of what you need in order to thrive moving forward.

Yeah. And so I feel like a lot of people getting hung up on the judgment of self for even having a from a response. And I think sometimes that that is exemplified by an user's behavior to getting of, like, making us that we're having trauma. When, obviously, they have trauma too, you know. But it's like, it causes, I think almost that lack of acceptance and of, this is who I am.

This is what I have and I can have responsibility for myself, but I don't have to judge my trauma responses. How can somebody into... Get to know what those triggers are rather than just judging them and being angry with themselves about it. Yeah. That's a really good question.

I mean, 1 thing that's helped me a lot is just kind of diving into education around trauma and the nervous system because, when you're reading a researcher or a therapist or someone that you look up to or admire or, like, believe, When they talk talk about, you know, how trauma manifests itself in the body. For me at least, it can give me a sense of like, okay, I'm not crazy. I'm not making this up. I'm not too sensitive. Like, there's so many people that experience this.

And that's kind of, you know, a big aim that I have with my content is just too sensitive allow people to see that they're not alone with these experiences because I think the more connected we feel to other people when we're suffering, with whatever it is, you know, I'm always focusing on trauma really, but the more connected we feel the less isolated and ashamed we feel So that's 1 thing that helps for me as as far as, like, how to better understand yourself would be to just learn, like, you are probably listening to this podcast episode right now. But diving into books or podcasts or Instagram, content or wherever you feel most comfortable learning. So that's 1 way So I'll stop there for now, but, I mean, we could probably talk about more as well. Is there a book that you recommend as 1 of, like, a book or a resource that you that can be so helpful and just be getting to put some of those internal pieces together? Yeah.

Absolutely. So my favorite resource when people are, like, first. Wanting to understand, like, trauma in the nervous system is a podcast from Justin L t. And so that stands for I forgot. It's like, his certification.

But if you type in Justin LMFT, Google or on Spotify or whatever, you'll find his podcast and Basically, at the... When he first started the podcast, he did episodes breaking down all of the nervous system states. Yeah. So that's been pretty quick and easy way. As far as books go, 1 that I really recommend because it's written so softly and gently is called Try softer by On Ko.

Think that's how you pronounce. Yeah. They yeah. Try softer. It's so sweet.

Obviously, there's things like the body keeps the score or waking the tiger, and those... Are very in depths and very scientific, but they're incredible resources. But, yeah. Those are some that come to mind are Yeah. Know.

And... Yeah. I have a client that use the body keeps... Or, like, was reading the body keeps score and just in case there are others who... Felt the same heat...

Like, I mean, it's a it's an excellent excellent resource. Like you said, very scientific, but she also started to feel like, almost more shame towards herself. So, was existing body. And I was like, you know, maybe that's 1 of those resources that you know, you only pick up when you when you can or you want to. But you can.

Pick can, you know, and I think talking about how our perfectionism shows up as another. Another thing, but it's more like, well, but just allowing yourself to treat your trauma responses with respect because most likely when you have been in fight flight freeze. I imagine that many people are also in the in while they are triggered dealing with someone telling them that they shouldn't be feeling that way. Mh. And so even allowing yourself to show up for yourself, almost feels like it takes kind of some of what you were saying about kind Dis associate from the the immediate trigger and bring myself back down to me, but also releasing of the judgment around that it's there and that we get to choose.

Mh. We get to choose what resources resonate for us and also how we can. I read the body keeps years ago, and I remember feeling like this book. It's very dense. There's so much in it.

Like, I learned so But I think that very newly discovering my trauma responses, it may have been 1 of those resources that might maybe be, like, a too much too soon type of feeling. Yeah. Same. I found a journal entry. Like, not all that long ago, and it was like, I'm reading the body keeps the score, which is both triggering and teaching me so much or something.

I was like, okay. Yeah. So, yeah. I've definitely heard from people as well that that book can be, overwhelming. So, yeah, take caution.

I would say go with what's feels good to you. Another 1 that I really like is called the trauma toolkit. I don't think it's as well known. But it's more focused on, like, having a toolkit of resources to cope with healing from trauma, but there's definitely education in there as well about what trauma is and stuff like that. Yeah.

I mean, that sounds like where, like, all where things land or at least like it's, like, 1 of the first steps is, like, begin to understand how you respond. To trauma and what your individual toolkit could be. Mh. Which might feel overwhelming at first is actually pretty empowering to be able to build own toolkit and to have it and feel exactly the responses. Right.

It's a lot of work. Like, none of this is easy easy, and it could be really exhausting. So it's not like you have to focus entirely on these things, which is something I could have learned when I was younger. But, yeah, I think it does easy it is a way of taking such radical ownership for yourself and you're well being. And to me as a survivor of abuse, like, learning to care for myself, and advocate for myself and do it right for me has ultimately been really healing and empowering because during an abusive relationship, all of that is completely demolished.

At least it wasn't my experience. Yeah. Yeah. And the people that are in your community in your courses and that you work with, what are? The trauma responses that you see most often in people.

Like, even if they... Great question. You can see it because obviously, you you do this work. Right. Yeah.

So 1 thing that's unique about my work is, you know, unlike a trauma therapist. I'm not really working with people who are in, like, active crisis mode type thing. Like, I don't work with people who are in abusive relationships or or struggling with mental illness and is so debilitating that they're having a hard time functioning. So typically, when I'm working with folks, they have gotten to a place in life where they're able to you know, function, like, do things that, like, serve them, and they're struggling in 1 way or another with the impact of trauma. And so I think that what I see the most in my client is fun and flight.

Yeah. Some of the others certainly as well, Like, Honestly, I see them all, and I've have experienced them all absolutely too. But, yeah, I think a lot of people with a more of a fun trauma response are drawn to today. Work with me because I talk so frequently about people pleasing or c dependency or anxious attachment. But essentially for anyone who's curious, the font, trauma response is basically when we learn to mitigate harm or threat or pain through appealing to the person who is causing us harm or pain or could potentially be.

So for example, in an abusive relationship, like, the 1 I was in, I leaned on the phone response extremely heavily because the message was very clear, you know, that fighting would make it worse. Running away felt impossible. So I was kind of left with when I had the energy for it. Fun, which was my attempt to please my abuser. Make him happy, make myself be perfect, so then he would stop hurting me.

When the other 1 that I leaned on a lot was freeze because that's kinda what happens when nothing else. Works or you don't have any capacity for anything else. But, yeah, I think the font trauma response can show up in so many ways, including having a really hard time saying, no. I constantly feel like you're pleasing other people being really intensely avoiding, conflict wanting everyone to love you all the time. They can become almost like a personality trait as well and certainly a big part of my story, conflict So, yeah.

Fawn is a big 1 and then flight as well, flight can come across looking like anxiety, a lot of sense of fear. Avoiding anything that's gonna cause us stress or potential harm, having a lot of perfectionism tendencies, being constantly worrying about what could go wrong. Yeah. So I've lived in that state for every very long time as well. So, yeah, Those are kind of the ones I see the most often, Yeah.

I agree. I almost think that especially because I work with people that are in the abusive of relationships and trying to leave. Gotcha. A lot of the time, and more that than those who have left but certainly a lot but have left. And I do think we have different responses.

So I think when we're in it, it's got a lot of fun and a lot of freezing and the flight actually feels really scary. Like, the wanting to run, leave it feels to but then we are out of it. I've seen the same of more pho, a lot of freezing, and sometimes the flight, and I think Saw light mostly and myself in not wanting to look at a lot of the stuff that I had experienced end. I work through. Any way to be able to be in a relationship again because it was, like, it was too scary.

Like, I wanted to run away from own my own pain. Mh. And instead, that just it manifests in other ways obviously. Like, you know, in the way that soma gets stored within us. But I think that with clients that are in it, when clients are inner and abuse relationship.

Now, I think the fawn comes into play almost the most. And I think a lot of people don't know what's funny. Like, we're hearing light for. Like, we know exactly what play. Yeah totally.

Appease this person just to prevent the abuse or even doing different behaviors in our lives after still felt, like, in a way self soothing through pho, but not realize you're not being able to break those break it apart. Right. It's interesting. It's obviously so worthwhile to look at and to dis disable, but when we're in it, It feels hard and it feels like this is just the way it. This is...

Just the way it is. Mh. Off, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I yeah.

All of these can really be taken on as a new reality, especially if you're in ongoing traumatic circumstances that put you into the state. It can feel like this is all there is And if we think about the whole concept of a lot of abusers being trauma survivors, we can think about that fight response. Of, you know, if you learn from a very young age that, like, you need to fight to get any of your needs met or like, that's, you know, what you're more prone to, like, that can be multiplied and taken and projected onto other people. When you grow up and find someone to have power control over. So none of that excuses that behavior, but it's interesting to think.

Like, I know many survivors including myself have moments when we're activated or triggered and lash out in a fight... Spots and savings things you don't mean or act in a way that you would never want to act towards this person that you love and care about because your nervous system is telling you you are not safe right now, you need to, like, fight them off. So, yeah, It's like, there's a lot of shadow stuff to all of this, but certainly, all of these things can kinda of become internalized as feelings that are perhaps impossible to escape, which is... Yeah. Really painful and hard.

Yeah. And since you work with people, mostly people that are, like, realize, you know, almost like, either, like, looking back and realizing what they have gone through or, like, working through how this stuff is still existing in their lives and then they're body and they're... Like, they're starting to notice it and feel it and they want to be more aware of it. If someone's not even aware that they're in a trauma response, what are some of the things they might be experiencing? Like, for example, when so you know, like, what I'm thinking about, like, the chronic exhaustion?

Was 1 for me if I am I am old, like, can't deal with higher, you know. Mh. What are some of the things that we may push away as normal stuff, but they are actually from our responses. Yeah. That's a great question.

I have a another example. Helpful. If that's helpful. Yeah. Go ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. Always feeling tired un motivate. It's definitely 1 that I see a lot unable to concentrate or make decisions because, like, we are afraid of of making decisions because you've sort of been taught in the relationship they be afraid to meet... Like, or any decision you make is going to cause a reactions 1?

Mh. Okay. Yeah. That's a good 1. Yeah.

Yeah. I have something I could add if Okay. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah.

Okay. Cool. Yeah. About this, like, sort of constant fear of... Having even like, an opinion.

Like, I'm doing be any people I know. Yeah. Just, like, sort of panicking if someone, like, asks, like, no, where do you wanna go to? Or, like, what do you wanna do? It's just like I can't.

Like, I can't answer because there's a chance you're not gonna like it and you're gonna be mad at me, and you're gonna hurt me, and it's like, you're talking to hopefully a safe person at this point who is, like, I just wanna get to know you better, but there can be so much, like, fear coupled with... Having any kind of, yeah, opinion need want, desire thought. So that's kinda connected to like, people pleasing, Another 1 is, I think you're... You kinda touched on as well. Like, this constant sense of urgency, which is something that I've dealt with where it's, like, everything is a big deal, and everything needs to be taken care of now.

Because... Yeah. Like, in in in the relationship I was in, that was abusive. It's, like, everything was urgent. Like, when there...

When he was something was wrong for him, it was... I had to deal with that right now. Like, I had no him to think. I had no time to... Breathe.

It was just, like, dope on him and figure it out or else bad things are about to happen. So, like, that can get taken into the workplace. It can get taken it into healthy relationships, friendships, me owning my own business. That's been a whole thing. Is just like, realizing, like, I don't have to constantly work.

I don't have to constantly think about work. I don't always have to try to, like, put out fires that don't even exist, like, you know, it's okay to, like, trust or slow down or breathe. And, but, yeah, I find it gets high end a lot for me when Conflict is arising. In 1 way or another. It's like, the idea of just, like, not solving something right away, can feel very foreign if that was the role you were in the past.

Right. I think that I definitely see that come up a lot and I'm sure a lot of people also experience that another... If know with that, like, around your sense of urgency that, like, might be just making a bit more specific, but I I see a lot. Is that when people feel the need to respond right away when they get a text from someone, like, I can tell yeah. Oh, that's me.

Yeah. Yeah. Right? Or, like, you can't go to bed with... Unless all the responses have been made at is.

That definitely comes for that Right? But, like, most likely. User didn't prioritize responding to us, which is, you know. So we've created this response because it was something we hated so much or, like, we still were helped to that stamp. Yeah.

But it doesn't allow collapse. So I just still work with everything I was thinking you had somebody else, but somehow I of a client that has exactly this. Issue is that if she doesn't respond to her partner, like, if he say he even messages, like, I love you, And she's, like, on a work call in a meeting with the friend doesn't respond. It turns into an issue every time. Now know when we talk for strategies and try and find ways, but I think like, on our 1 on 1 work, I can give their further.

Reminder, Like, you have the right to be in your own life. Right? Like, you don't. Do just respond to whatever he wants on these these, you can be in your world, but I imagine that when she's on the other side of this, that's gonna come up quite a bit of feeling like I have respond right away, or else there's a consequence. Totally.

Yeah. And so that's a great example. Of like, if that happened, and, you know, you felt that really intensity of, like, I need to respond to this, like, if that invites you to, you know, have some compassion for yourself of, like, the younger version of yourself that had... Literally did have to respond, that fast or else, you know, shit was gonna hit the fan. It's, like, I personally feel so much compassion towards anyone that's experienced that, including my younger self, and I think through that compassion, we can find breakthroughs there's and ways forward and healing.

So, yeah, I would say, I would encourage that over, like, being really harsh and intense about it or believing that, yeah, you do have to respond that fast because, yeah. The truth is you should be able to breathe a little bit and not just be so preoccupied with your the application to someone else. Yeah. I really love what you said about if someone resonates but thus sees it and themselves or notices that that they, like, having more of that compassion to themselves and younger self, that we often forget it out and kinda cast aside, but that that younger self that having did these things add a survival? You know, that made it this far, but that needs some new tools.

Mh. Maybe she wants some mutual. Right? Like, the the cell that for now, by the way, I guess I think about it is, like, the self that's here today. I wish that I could give that former self.

Better tools, you know, rather than the ones I had or maybe some awareness, but or even just the compassion of it's okay. This happened and, like, We're not there anymore, and we can I can kill those parts? Yes. Absolutely. I love all of that.

Yeah. I guess, when you think about beginning to soften our tam responses, Like, I know you shared, here are some tools that, like, are possible to do and if you're feeling the trigger coming on. Like, but first, Mh. It sounds like, first educate yourself so you're aware about what's happening and that's you can show up a bit better for yourself. And then would you say like, the second thing is, I...

I think you've said this without really saying it, is that just really being softer with yourself. And, like, except Almost like allowing it to be there, accepting it. Totally. Yeah. Yeah.

So I feel like the you know, off the top of my head, like, first of all, there is no, like, perfect framework of how to deal with a trigger, but obviously, it's helpful to have some idea or some structure. I feel like what can be really helpful is starting by just, like, noticing, naming how you're feeling. Like, you know, sensing, like, okay. I'm feeling this tightness in my chest. I'm feeling this drop in my stomach.

You know, that feels like anxiety, that feels like fear that feels like terror, that feels like so I'm starting to shut down where I'm feeling really angry. I'm feeling like, I really wanna, like, lash out, like, noticing any urges, noticing anything that's you know, any movement within you that's compelling you to do something and try to, you know, take a pause there if you can, So I think that pause can look a number of different ways. You could do some, like, intentional kind of breathing. 1 thing that can be helpful is sigh, or... Ex hailing for a lot longer than you inhale that can help activate the parasympathetic nervous system, which tells us we're safe, it can be helpful to...

If you're feeling really activated, especially if you're feeling very angry or wanting to lash out or very anxious, doing some sort of movement, whether that's, like, shaking or punching a pillow or dancing or going on a walk or a run, like, kinda like, moving your body to expel that energy. I think that's typically, what I'm usually drawn for. I'm someone that's less in the freeze state sort of things where, you know, some people really can feel totally I mobilized. Usually, for me triggers manifest either as like, intense irritation or typically more as anxiety for and so moving that energy through the body really intentionally it can be helpful. I also think moving our thoughts, can be helpful, so things like journal, talking to someone you trust or someone that supports you or any other way you have it kind of expressing how you feel in a way that's safe.

Can be super helpful. And then, yeah, we've been naming being compassionate with yourself sensing into. Like, I kinda think that within us all, we we have a lot of information about what we need. But it... It's hard to get to that information if you're being really critical or shaming towards yourself or if someone else is being that way towards you.

So if you can create an in an inner environment that says hey, like, I I see you're feeling this way. I, you know, like, I'm sorry you're feeling this way. What would feel good right now? Like, so much can come forward from within us. Another thing I really named you is connection.

So connecting with someone that feels like a... Balm to your soul or, like, someone that affirm to you, you are in the present moment, you are safe, whether that's holding hands with them, getting a hug or not touching at all, just talking, calling them on the phone, even watching a Tv show that has your favorite characters than it or reading your comfort book, like, all of that can really help us, feel more present in our bodies and less unsafe. Yeah. When you're were saying that 1 thing that came up from me is just, like, having space from the trigger. Like, a...

Or, like, yeah. Totally. Figure. Like, just allowing your that I don't have to continue to be in the fire in order to work through this. I can let my...

For the fire. Yes. Safe and, like, almost, like, regulate my body. I have a child and they the word regulation all the time to talk about, like, regulated and regulated. And I know on a forum and I I shared the colors with you, like, the stop sign colors.

Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Yellow. Yeah. This I like that because it's like, okay.

What I'm starting to get heightened. I can start to recognize, like, this, like, this is not okay. And when I have space. Right. What you said, like, I'm able to sort of come back down to...

Okay. Now that I've had time and space. Like, In which could be it could be a whole day away or it could just be literally, like, I went home and then went back and finished doing the thing I needed to do. If we use the long example, like, okay. I was, well laundromat you mat and like, maybe I decide I'm gonna move step to another laundry map because I don't.

Don't wanna smell the scout under Right. You know, we don't have to Right. So about every single trigger in that moment. You also might decide you'd never want to smell that. But, you know, that's sent again.

Kinda great somewhere else. And that just a choice. Exactly. That's exactly it it's a choice, which in this framing that, you know, you're... I think you're giving us, it's, like, if we're gonna stay away from judging ourselves, then we can also stay away from, like, like, we get to make these choices.

Yes. Right. Exactly. And it's, like, if it's... You know, for some people, it's important for them to confront things and not avoid everything that causes them triggers.

Right? And if for some people, it's important to learn that you do not have to tolerate being triggered if you have the capacity to leave. You know? So It's up to you, and what feels right what feels most aligned for you. I guess, wherever you're at in your journey of whether you want to...

Find a way to tolerate something or whether you want to move on and walk away, which I am in full support. Yeah. I remember like, kind of framing it this way when I was younger up, like, I just don't... Like, I'm just not about to deal with that right now. You know, or, like, just being, like, Yep.

And other people would almost take it as was, like, I was being a bit dismissive of, like, things I was dealing with, but I know now looking back, it was really... It's more... It was more of like, this is what I can handle right now. I can handle working on this this, this and this. But like, that pile of stuff over there.

I'm good. You know? Like like. Right? The story to my clients, like, I had an x that lived.

In, like, a downtown area, pretty prominent area, and I just... I kinda just don't wanna go there. You know, he hasn't lived there anymore. It feels a bit better now. I have no need to go there.

So why? But I I remember saying to somebody like, I wanna get myself to be able to go there, That as I healed, I didn't care anymore. That was, like, Yeah. I was like version 1 for my... Of myself.

I was like, I wanna get to be able to go place. And then as I I think I worked on it. I was like, why do I have that? Do I want to? And then it's into, like, more of a choice to just say, No.

I don't. Right. Beautiful. Yeah. I love that.

Yeah. I feel like, at the heart of so much of the healing process from particularly, like, controlling abusive, type relationships or dynamics is you get to have choice again. So it's not about what you should do. It's about you know, what you choose to do, what you want to do, what works for you. And so I love that.

I love when I see people getting in touch with that and, Yeah. Even and sell the choice. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, like a lot of your content, but, I mean, I'm sure I see what I want to see you know what I mean.

But I feel like a lot of focus a lot on, like, that we don't have to feel these ways. Like, we can make a choice. We can acknowledged that this happened. We can accept that this is part... Like, this may have happened, and this is part of our story, but it's also it's we can heal.

And that reminder of, like, it's almost like, it's okay. It's okay. You know, there's... There people that have gone down this path, and we can feel there of we can feel better and here are some ways we could feel better and that's what I've really gotten from following your work and being a part of your programs is, like, first, the education of this is what's going on for me. This is how I can notice it, but also, here's...

I don't have to be mad at myself anymore. Mh. My speak response. Yeah. Great.

Yeah. Totally. Like, I really like to push back against the idea that you have to be, like, fully healed or free of trauma responses in order to have healthy relationships or a meaningful life because it's not true. Like, you know, I I was a person with so much trauma and, you know, got into the relationship that I'm in now that is extremely healthy and very secure and That's just 1 example, but it's like, we... It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

And so focusing on feeling better, tending to yourself nurturing yourself, all of that. So lovely and wonderful, and it doesn't have to come at the price of shaming yourself or telling yourself you're bad or wrong. Yeah. You can be compassionate and still pursue a better life or feeling better in your in your brain and your body? Yeah.

And you shared in a previous podcast too that your current partner, your husband. Right? Yeah. Mh. Is that he really gave you the space and the compassion to really be able to heal the, you know, the parts of you that you wanted to heal in the relation.

That offered a lot of, like, enough space for you to be able to, like, look at, acknowledge, take care of mh to, and which probably fit also helped facilitate the ability for you to be in relationship too. Yes. Absolutely. Definitely getting into that relationship I required, a lot of space? Yeah.

Yeah. I worked out really well, so I'm happy grateful for that. Yeah. Yeah. As a fellow space meter, I totally that that probably says something about, like, what you and I...

Experience as in the abuses that we didn't have the space, you know, to, like, the space. Okay. Space. Yeah. If people want to explore more about what you do and especially, like, with this idea of, like, if they are going to...

If they wanna, like, learn more about their... Triggers their trauma. Tell us a little bit about the courses and the groups that you have. Cool. Yeah.

So on my website, emmy mean marie dot com, you can can find a number of free resource I have. I have 1 that's all about how trauma impacts relationships. 1 is more like a... Can inquiry into your symptoms and kind of like a self compassionate guided journal type deal. And then beyond that, I have a monthly membership that is, like, sliding scale, so it's a lower cost.

Mh. And that has a lot of different workshops within it related to trauma and recovery, so you can find some education in there related to triggers, trauma responses, everything we've been talking about and a lot more. Beyond that, I have a course, for relationships after trauma that opens again, this spring at some point, and then I have another 1 called coming home to yourself, that's more about embracing authenticity when you've, kind of been conditioned to hide yourself or suppress your true self. And then I do also 1 to 1 wells for folks who are wanting to, you know, dive in, yeah. Just with just just in a private space.

Yeah. Basics too. Get to know better and also to work through these tough things that always always think that working on it with somebody who understands it from that, like, deep way of, like, I've gone through this, and I've had to work through all the tough parts and I've gotten for the other not to the other side, you know, is, like, it's so valuable. And I'm glad that you different options and choices so that if someone where they... I can really start where they are.

Yeah. Yeah. It works for me and the way my brain works so it comes to, like offering things in a business, and I also, like, how Can... Reach a lot of different people depending on where they're at and what they need. So think thank you for your kind words.

Thank you, Emmy. I really enjoyed having you again, and I'm sure back, in the food may in the spring when your course is coming out, you know, we can do something else, but Thank you. And I'm sure some people are going to be headed to your courses in your page. Holding thank you. Yeah.

I appreciate that. And... Yeah. Anyone that's listening. Thank you for listening.

I know this work can really take so much courage to dive into. So I just wanna say, I think you're very brave and absolutely worthy of all the good things that come along with healing despite how difficult it can be as well. Yeah. Thank you, Emmy.