Navigating High-Conflict Divorce: Strategies and Insights with Family Court Strategist Tori

Are you drowning in your High Conflict Divorce? Todays guest, Tori, a Family Court Strategist, shares expert strategies to navigate the turbulent waters of family court. Tori unravels the complexity of the family court system and illuminates the path to a smoother divorce process. Through her story, you'll learn how high-conflict divorces are often mislabeled domestic violence cases, why abusers prolong court cases, and the importance of a strategic approach.

We cover some key questions: How do we mediate effectively with an abuser? What tools do we need? Tori focuses on understanding your assets, knowing why you're fighting for what you want, and having a clear order of topics ready for when you're at the negotiation table. She also shares invaluable insights on documenting and categorizing instances of abuse, and the challenges that might arise during parenting time.

You can connect with Tori here: https://www.onyx-arrow.com/start-here

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to the Relationship Recovery Podcast hosted by Jessica Knight, a certified life coach who specializes in narcissistic and emotional abuse. This podcast is intended to help you identify manipulative and abusive behavior, set boundaries with yourself and others, and heal the relationship with yourself so you can learn to love in a healthy way.

Speaker 2: 0:33

Hello and thank you so much for being here Today. I have a Family Court Strategist, tori, who is on TikTok and Instagram as Onyx Arrow Consulting. Tori is amazing. She's a mom of three a single mom of three and she helps empower TV victims by using strategies within the Family Court system. We dive through some of the key things that come up in a Family Court battle with an abuser. Now we jump around quite a bit, but that is sort of purposeful.

Speaker 2: 1:08

We did another episode about the ins and outs of the Family Court system. That episode is linked in the show notes, but Tori and I sort of dive through some various client-related problems and issues that come up so that you can start to think about how adopting a different strategy might help in your case. She is amazing, she is straightforward and she's become one of my favorite people to connect with. I know you're going to get so much out of this episode To find Tori. All of her links are in the show notes but it's onyx-arrow-consultingcom To find me and to work with me in some of the high-conflict divorce cases. You can go to high-conflictdivorcecoachingcom or go to my other website, emotionalabusecoachcom, and you'll be able to get there. We touch on this later on in the episode. There are courses out there, there are groups, there are digital downloads. Nothing really compares to being able to work one-on-one with somebody on some of these things it is. Every case is so different and, as you hear in this episode, there are so many different ways something can go. Working with somebody who understands the legal system, who has been through what you're going through and who wants to help is so significant. That said, I'm going to contradict myself a bit by mentioning that I have a new digital download on how to divorce a narcissist.

Speaker 2: 2:49

The purpose of this is not to be legal advice. The purpose of that is not to get you to listen to that and then know every single thing. There is to know. It is meant to be a first go around and that's that it's meant to be. This is the first step. If you are so confused by what you're going through, go there. It will begin to put together some pieces. You will begin to learn a few items and things to begin to think about. You'll know what questions to ask an attorney if you're interviewing them for your case, and then, if you want to work with a strategy partner, you could reach out to me or any of the others that I list that I find to be super helpful. That is available at high-conflictdivorcecoachingcom. Like I said, this episode covers so much. I know it's going to be helpful. I really hope you get a lot out of it. Hi, tori, thank you for joining me again. Hi, can you tell us who you are and what you do?

Speaker 3: 3:56

Yeah, so my name is Tori. I have a business called Onyx Arrow Consulting. I work in more of what they consider high-conflict divorce and custody. I would say I'm more within that family court strategist realm and I help victims of domestic violence, whether they are still in the relationship or enduring post-separation abuse.

Speaker 2: 4:20

Got it. How do you define a high-conflict divorce?

Speaker 3: 4:25

I think that is something that is wildly misunderstood and incorrectly labeled. Family court system wants to label it as high-conflict, but the underlying issue is domestic violence. And then we also have the other issue of family court being overall, generally speaking, under-educated on domestic violence as a whole. So those who are labeled as high-conflict whether custody or divorce you're actually looking at a case of domestic violence. So, whether something happened in the relationship or maybe you didn't even label it as abuse and then the relationship dissolved, whether you did or the ex-partner did. And then you're enduring post-separation abuse in family court, which is abuse of litigation, so dragging you back to court years on and false claims of abuse. The list goes on and on. But instead of family court labeling it as domestic violence or abuse, they'll just generally go with sweeping label of high-conflict.

Speaker 2: 5:33

Yeah, and that label labels both parties as high-conflict, rather than just the one, the abuser causing all the conflict. Right yeah, the main way, or one of the I mean maybe the main way is not accurate. It's one of the ways that I'm noticing this. Continue on with my clients is with dragging out court cases and dragging out the proceedings. I actually have one client right now. She has not even made it into the courtroom yet they haven't even had a first hearing or a pre-trial conference and she's already spent $15,000 just kind of keeping basically fighting orders and lawyer harassment in this time in the last six months or so. So clearly you and I know how expensive this is about to get. In your opinion, why do you think that the abuser drags out the court cases almost all the time?

Speaker 3: 6:34

I think that there's two reasons. One is well, there's probably more than two that I can put off the top of my head. One right away, is they actually get a. It's kind of like a drug to them, so they get a high from seeing the victim continuously abused. Right of seeing them suffer, whether financially because they need to or feel like they need to hire representation or attending hearings, and they can see them again. So just having the abuser get a high from it. The second that I can think of off the top of my head would be as an intimidation tactic. Right, abusers hate to lose.

Speaker 2: 7:12

They need to lose.

Speaker 3: 7:13

So they will go back to court just to prove a point and majority of the time they don't even want the kids. They'll make claims like they want sole custody but they don't actually want the kids. They just hate that feeling of losing. So they will take the victim back to court just to kind of like, stick it to them, if you will.

Speaker 2: 7:34

Yeah, so it's more about their hatred towards the safe parent rather than them trying to sort of like get something out of it other than their own personal validation in some way.

Speaker 3: 7:47

Right Yep To feed their ego in some way, and they do dislike the safe parent more than they actually care about their kids.

Speaker 2: 7:56

Yeah, I have a client who I this is a different client than the one that I just mentioned and the opposing attorney keeps pushing them to mediation. And now her lawyer, I'd say, is pretty well-oriented with high-conflict cases or quote-unquote high-conflict cases. She knows what she's dealing with. I advise the client without knowing where they stand on a lot of these issues, because they're refusing to give any information about where they stand pre-mediation. I was like then you're walking into a firing range. What is your take on the strategy for mediating with an abuser?

Speaker 3: 8:37

The first thing that I would say is a lot of people look at mediation incorrectly, and I felt the same way when I entered mediation. I thought, oh great, we're actually going to mediate, we're going to come to some agreement, because that is what we are told is mediation. When you're going to mediation with an abuser again, they hate losing. While it may feel like you're going in blind, there will be no way for you to truly understand what their end result is in their mind. You can only prepare yourself. It's like boundaries we create them for ourselves.

Speaker 3: 9:18

Whether you know, through discovery or pieces of evidence, what the abuser is going to say in mediation or not, you can go in with your own plan of what would you be okay with? What is your bottom line? What is something that you want to toss in as a tactic, as a tool, because a lot of people go in with no tools. It's kind of like walking into war. Really, you still need your weather shield, sword gun, whatever it is you want to label it as. You're not going to go into war completely underprepared.

Speaker 2: 10:01

Yeah, I'm struggling to word this question in a way that I mean it. I've had more cases that went to a pretrial conference in Massachusetts. That's sort of like the first thing, the first step into getting to the divorce. They do suggest mediation before it. Rarely, I would say in these cases it rarely happens because both sides are trying to get a feel of what the judge is thinking and what they're saying. Would you recommend splitting up the finance discussions on finances and discussions on custody separately as a way to begin to make some ground and to also begin to see who you're working with?

Speaker 3: 10:38

I wouldn't necessarily say that it needs to be in categories. Let's talk about all the finances first and all the custody later. I actually think the best way that I would suggest someone to do it is first of all to do a brain dump, right, just if you would document what you are endured To do a brain dump and you really should know all of your assets. You should know why you're asking for what you're asking for, such as if you're asking for a soul custody, why are you asking for that? And to also keep in mind are you asking for that because of your own ego, of your own feeling? Is that something that's supported by law, like a parenting plan that's posted on your court's website, which they usually are, the age of your child and so on?

Speaker 3: 11:23

Most people will not look at all of that, right, and when you list it all out, you should also have it in a specific order, knowing that more often than not, the first thing that you list off, they're going to automatically say no to. So whenever you're listing something off, I would never put your most important topic first. It doesn't even need to be a category, but I would never put your most important issue first. So I wouldn't go in saying I want soul custody of the kids because you're going to say no, then it's going to go back and forth and that's just going to shut down everything. I believe, in kind of the same way, that you would almost hold across examination, if you will, to put it in a specific order, where you know they're going to hear things in a better order. So maybe put the most important things towards the end, like the middle to the end, yeah, yeah, the most important things to you, the middle to the end of whatever you're going to negotiate.

Speaker 2: 12:27

Would you use the most important things to them first. So say, for example you know they want the house that you live in. You don't care at all, you're like fine, they can have the house. I want this new beginning, I want fresh, new walls. I often think about that as a bit more of a strategy to sort of almost appear that you want it so that it feels like this giant win for them when they get it, but really to you it carried no weight at all.

Speaker 3: 12:53

I would probably. So let's say there's a list of four, right? Yeah, you would probably put that as number two, what is important to them as number two, and I would put what's important to you as number three, and then to kind of close it all out like all the loose ends as number four. Number one I would put in like fluff really, like I suggest my clients, like maybe you talk about a holiday schedule because you know, that they're probably going to go over a holiday schedule.

Speaker 3: 13:24

And some of my clients ask for every Christmas Eve and Christmas, where you know they're going to say no, but you also know that you're going to settle for swapping. Right, somebody gets Christmas and then it swaps the other year. But, number one, you're not really going to be hurt if they say, yes, you can have every Christmas Eve and Christmas, but you're also not going to be hurt if they say let's swap, great. So now we've come to some agreement where both of us are okay with this and then we move into what's important to them and kind of almost crescendo from there.

Speaker 2: 13:55

Yeah, that makes a ton of sense and I think it also gives people the ability, almost like with a fluff issue, to see how the other side reacts and to get it and almost like, have that moment where you're not emotionally invested, to just do a temperature check of like okay, where is this? And then be able, like, in that time between one and three, you can take a quick bathroom break and re-center and be able to come back and just be like okay, now I know how I need to compose myself for this as I approach like this really important topic to me, which is, in most cases, are children Absolutely yeah. So little side notice I didn't have any strategy in my case Because I didn't know what I was dealing with and all of it was sort of based on what I was trying to figure out as I went along. But all of the things I know now I didn't know anything. I didn't know any of it when I was going through it. I just thought nothing made sense all of the time and I actually I really fought on holidays, mostly because it was what my daughter wanted, and I think I cared more that he was saying like he lied.

Speaker 2: 15:04

He said he's never had any holiday time ever her entire life and I think I cared more about like clearing up those untruths rather than the money that I was spending to continue to fight it. When my daughter this is what the judge said any kid would be okay with two Christmases, and I was like, damn, she's right. But like it was one of those situations that looking back now I'm like, oh my God, I just wanted like the truth to come out and it wasn't about the holiday for me, it was about that they lied.

Speaker 3: 15:36

Absolutely. Yeah, I have the same thing where and I probably did the same as well in the very beginning of my journey of hoping that at one point they say the truth and we get so obsessed with almost the justice of that that we lose sight of is this going to be important to a judge or an outsider who is actually going to be the end, all be all. This is your order. And a lot of times people like you said don't go in with strategy. They think, oh, they didn't negotiate, or I did. I did try to negotiate and mediate, like no, you actually didn't. You went in thinking that they were going to be truthful, that they were going to be calm, that they were going to be the opposite of an abuser and you wouldn't be in family court if that was the case.

Speaker 2: 16:21

Exactly. Yeah, that's 100% true. You wouldn't be there if all those things were happening. If they were truthful, honest and, like, willing to work it out and find resolution, you wouldn't be in family court. You might be still getting divorced, but you wouldn't be having to be in front of a judge, right?

Speaker 2: 16:36

Yeah, let's talk a little bit about strategic communication now that we're on strategy, because, in the same way that I, I guess, put so much importance on Christmas, also in my case personally at the beginning, I responded to every single thing or every single jab that he said. And I remember I had a lawyer that was like, just don't respond. And I'm like if I just don't respond, I get abused more. Like that's what that leads to, is like it's going to be more and more constant. And I remember saying can you teach me how to communicate with this person in a way that's not going to hurt me in front of the family court system? And she was like you're putting too much energy into it, just don't respond. That obviously wasn't helpful. What is your, I guess? How would you define strategic communication?

Speaker 3: 17:25

So if we're breaking down strategic communication, I would actually, to make it more easier to digest I would actually call it effective communication, yeah, or active communicating, and remove the thought of I have to be strategic because it's not actually that like, yes, it's labeled as that but it's not actually that. When you are an active communicator, part of it is listening, part of it is making sure that you are not responding. To react and I actually do believe that when you're flooded with messages or all of these lies to not respond. One of my golden rules is like, if there's no question, I'm not going to say anything.

Speaker 3: 18:10

And I think a lot of times, especially with victims, and they know what they experienced in the relationship and they know, you know, the dog whistling part where they know what maybe their abuser means by this one message or this one word and they're getting triggered, the victim's getting triggered. I'm saying like that's not true, I know what you mean, but to an outsider and a judge they're not going to understand that. So picking your battles of saying I'm just not going to respond. Or for me, it was also like I would get messages that just were to rile me up and I would choose to go to the gym instead, because I can get angry and then I can also go get fit. But if I respond, if I get angry and I respond, I'm being pulled down by this like quicksand. Right Of this. I'm responding, so I look like part of the problem, and that's exactly what the family court sees.

Speaker 2: 19:03

I think that, as the case continues, that you know like this is almost piggybacking off that point of if there's no question, I'm not responding.

Speaker 2: 19:14

I feel like I know this is true for me, but I have a specific client in my mind right now that it's like there are a lot of digs that end with the question, and so it's like you have to go through all the mud to get to the question. And I think what I mean, what I love about your answer, is you're really saying like when this happens, instead of getting pulled by the quicksand, begin to like look at what's happening to you. Is that anger, you know? Or is that anger going back to the email, or is it in a productive way, where it's at the gym and you're moving your body and you're like you're getting out of your head for a second and then you can kind of go back and see is there anything to respond to here? I think as time goes on, the waters get a little bit muddier, because now the abuser is catching on to the fact that you don't respond to the digs, so now they're reminipulating them a bit.

Speaker 3: 20:05

Yeah, they can do that. That's also why I'm not a huge fan of canned responses. So, yes, you could start out that way if you know you're newly separated or not sure how to communicate, but they will start parroting you, they will start doing what you're saying of. Well, this doesn't work. I'm going to try maybe this tactic or whatever. You know, they just want a reaction out of you. So, being very aware of your choices and being aware of that not everybody needs an immediate response, I think, especially in this day and age where I mean, let's face it, we're all driven by like, social media and that immediate like, and then if nobody likes the post, we take it down. And it's kind of the same way when you communicate with your abusive ex is we feel like we have to respond or we look bad if we don't respond that minute. And it's not that it's OK to wait 24 hours to respond.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 21:06

And maybe in that mind or at the time that you're taking, maybe they said something and accusing you of something, of maybe not communicating, let's say, and maybe they feel, or they're claiming that they missed out on an event because you didn't communicate. But within 24 hours you're thinking wait, I did message them and you can go through the past messages, you can screenshot, show them and say here's the proof. But if you immediately respond, you've shot yourself in the foot.

Speaker 2: 21:32

Yeah, that's a really good point. I think it's a really good point too because it's also it kind of points right back to what you were saying before about like you can channel that anger into something that's productive. It also feels like, or points to the fact that you're not thinking clearly when you're being abused. When you're being abused, your brain isn't more like you're in your trauma response and these people know how to trigger that. That's what they're good at, especially with you, and so allowing time to get you back to yourself will give you that space to be like oh crap, I did totally message them about this. I'm just going to spring to that Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 22:07

I know you said you're not a fan of can responses. I think some people really struggle with how to respond when they're getting like more complex messages coming in, but you know, usually in the, which feels like you're not keeping me up to date on events or they're probably a lot more accusatory than that. Or the child came back with like you know that you sent your child back with like clean clothes and their hair done and it's like do you send the child over with this, this and this? What is wrong with you? Is there a system that you use in learning how to respond, and if this is a bigger you know, I know that's like such a huge question. So even just like one or two tips in when you have that message that is accusatory, it is mean, it is one of those things that you sort of you need to respond to. Just in case the narrative continued to be pushed that way of being an unfit parent or whatever the hell they're saying, how might you begin to think about responding?

Speaker 3: 23:05

So I think it's taking a big pause before you respond, in whatever time length you take to respond, and looking at the issue, because you just brought up different points where I think, depending on what is happening, there should be a different response or no response, right? So the first thing that you said was let's take the example of you're being accused of not keeping them in the loop of events. You're just missing these events because you're not doing this and that. Instead of saying yes, I am, you're just not right. We could go back and forth like that. Yeah, I would say If you've already done that, I would say here's a screenshot. But I would also say what system can we use so both of us are kept in the loop? Would you like to agree to use the calendar on this app? Then that puts it back on them of one. You're looking like you're resolving the problem. The courts will see.

Speaker 3: 24:02

Okay, maybe you did mess up. Let's say you didn't tell them, right, at least showing that you are willing to come to a resolution. Then you're also asking a question that's a yes or no. You're not blaming them back, you're not saying you're harassing me, and it's not going back and forth, you're putting an end to it and you're saying how can we resolve this? Would you like to do this app? Would you like to use this piece on this app, or would you like a notebook? Going back and forth and maybe even giving them three options. If they don't respond, then you also have another piece of evidence saying I tried to resolve it and they didn't respond. Yeah, I would go that route with something like that. If it's something like they're accusing you of the child looking a mess, after whatever point in time are you sending them in? My ex would say when our child was really young, you intentionally give him to me when he has a dirty diaper, okay, it was like yeah.

Speaker 3: 24:57

I probably did react, but thinking back on how wild that claim is, right that you really think I could train a one-year-old to just hey, now is the time to go in your diaper. Yeah, that was the case, I would have potty trained my kid. But yes, I'm sure that claim probably came with a question. But to sift through, I think of it as a colander or strainer, whatever you call them. Is this actually a piece of something like a golden nugget that's going to come out of this as I sift through whatever is sent to me? Do I really have to respond or is this just something that is hilarious?

Speaker 2: 25:32

Yeah that one feels like it's on the face, it feels like, oh, I need to respond, but then one day later it's a no. This is ridiculous.

Speaker 3: 25:42

Absolutely. Yeah, I agree where. Yeah, that's one of the loopholes of yes. I said if it's a question, then answer. But questions like that of why would you do this, it is just absurd to answer. Really, I do think that if someone is using that tactic, if an abuser is using that tactic, they're not going to use it once or twice, they're going to use it consistently. Then maybe you take all of that in addition to something else and some judges do grant restraining orders on that.

Speaker 2: 26:11

Yeah Well, and I think I mean and that sort of points to. Another thing I wanted to raise with you was documentation, and I think a lot of people get very overwhelmed by documentation. I also think that a lot of my clients at first might eye roll when we start to talk about it and when I talk about the importance of it. But, based on what you just said, an important reason to document would be able to see that pattern of like, how often that happens and how ridiculous those claims are, and you can almost like put them all together and be like he never makes sense when he's accusing me of these things. These are all things I don't have to respond to. The bucket of responses are much smaller. What do you feel like is important or what topics do you think are important to document If you're co-parenting and or in the family court system with an abuser?

Speaker 3: 27:02

I think the term document or documentation is such a vague term and everyone's told to document, right, but there's oftentimes people are thinking I'm just going to print out this or send this text message in or whatever, and it's more specific than that. So, like you're asking me of what categories should they document, I would also reference whatever your state is or area is defining as of importance. So categories like, let's say, best interest of the child. But then you need to break down what they're defining as best interest. Do you have any of those issues going on? Then I would put it in folders, whether digitally or like a physical copy, any signs of abuse against you or the children. Then break it down to physical abuse, verbal abuse, on and on, but you need to have clear evidence.

Speaker 3: 27:57

I can recall a recent client of mine thought she had a good chain on categories of her messages between her and her abuse of acts and she was constantly saying please advise. And that didn't break it down into what category. Like, what are you? If a judge were to take out one message, what are they going to get from that? Are they going to get dates, times, the type of abuse? Maybe you're saying this message is accusatory. Please stop. And then from there you're putting in a category of verbal or written abuse. So I think it is important to document, but you actually need to know what you are enduring. So you need to identify what type of abuse, what your state is going to find important and then also reorganize it to what your judge is going to find important.

Speaker 2: 28:49

Yeah, and that is a question that you can ask your attorney, if you have one, is have you been in front of this judge before? If so, what does this judge find important? What do they seem to really pay attention to? And if they haven't been in front of the judge before, that would be a pretty big red flag for me with all the other uncertainty in that, in your case, just from who you're going up against.

Speaker 3: 29:13

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's also another issue of people just jump to hiring attorneys and they don't actually know what to ask them in the intake interview before they retain them, or even a long line If you've already retained them and maybe they're just now realizing that they should ask these questions to their attorney. Is seeing information on any court professional that could be a possibility, or working on your case, a GAL mediator, the judge, opposing counsel, minors counsel and so on?

Speaker 2: 29:46

Yeah, yeah, I think so. One category that has been really challenging for a lot of my clients is in regard to parenting time, and so let's just sort of assume that this particular person has a 5-2-2 schedule with the child's other parent. And so I've noticed a variety of things can happen during someone's parenting time, and I want to get your take on how you would document this if all of these things might fall in the category of imposing on my time, on my parenting time, or if these kind of go into more of the abusive categories. And so all of these examples actually come from one client, and so the opposing parent won't allow my client to list any other people that could possibly pick up their child during his time, because they want to be called instead so say this is actually their two moms in this. So I didn't want to be confusing by saying she and she. So it's like mom one can't get the child at the time because she has a busy, she has a work day that is pre-planned, that's going over time. Mom two is claiming you can't have anybody else pick up the kid, I will, and then you can get the kid from me. That's not their time. And mom one is basically like I want my mother to be able to pick up the kid so I can then go pick up my son and then have the night with him. So that's one example and that happens like across the board of like just like control over this. When those rules don't apply to mom two, mom two does whatever the F she wants.

Speaker 2: 31:25

Another thing my client has parenting time certain days out of the week with the five, two, two schedule. The other parent shows up, just happens, and it's always like quote, unquote, happen, stands oh, I didn't expect you to be walking down the street at this time. And then walks the entire way with them Like oh, I didn't expect you to be at this store, oh, how funny, I also was going to this event right now. Things like that continuously happen, which then it and it's always a surprise to my client, and so then she feels like she's in the space of feeling like her parenting time is always, always having these conflicts and it's also not in the best interest of the child. Who's feeling the stress? And the third example and I could probably give like seven more, but the third one that I guess I sort of like there's like those two, the third one is almost like the issues that come up during her time.

Speaker 2: 32:16

So the other parent, the high conflict parent, will use her parenting time as a chance to just bombard my client with emails.

Speaker 2: 32:24

And so we have a system or like we've worked on this together of like, okay, well, when you have your child absent of an emergency, there's no responding, like there's no looking, the notifications are off, this is your time with your kid, you can check it when you're in a good balance space after, but absent of an emergency and you have the child, there's no reason to be responding to anything at this time. But there's a significant pattern around that. I'm not talking about three messages like the last time. That was 16 during the four days. I've been in that position before and that starts to feel like harassment, especially when it's first on the app, then on email, then in a text, then through the child's phone call with the other parent. I'm just curious what your take is on how to begin to document these issues during parenting time so that there can be a change made at one point, whether it's on the next court hearing, whether it's through attorneys. I know I just said a lot.

Speaker 3: 33:25

The first thing I'm going to try and think of the order that you asked me in, the first thing for the, let's say like emergency card contact is. So I think this depends on how you, as in whoever's in the situation wants to navigate it right when, yes, I can see who's ever parenting time it is only has their emergency contacts. Or you can drop the rope and say, great, maybe our kid Pete is pants at school and I can't get to him. Sure, go over and pick him up and I will be there in 30 minutes to get him from you. I don't think that that is a black and white answer. I think that in probably your client situation, with every example that you gave, is because the high conflict parent or the abuser is wanting a reaction. That is why they're doing it. So again it goes back to where are you really? Are you wanting to let go of Because you can't put 10 percent of yourself in every issue? Let's say you let go of that emergency contact thing and you focus on the overwhelming amount of messages instead. So those are two ways that you can navigate the emergency contact issue. The showing up at wherever you are.

Speaker 3: 34:52

The first thing I would say is, unless you're posting it. We're going to go to this concert. I would be weary of tracking device or being cyber monitored. If maybe you're texting people that you're going to go to the store and then magically this person shows up, that would be my first thought that you have some kind of monitoring system on you, right?

Speaker 3: 35:16

I would also get in the routine of accepting and opening up yourself to a new way of living. By that I mean, let's say, when you are in the relationship with your ex-partner, your abuser, you always went to one grocery store. For example, my favorite place is Trader Joe's. I will always go to customer service. I will always go to Trader Joe's. Let's say my abuser started doing that with me and then we separate. I might either not go to that Trader Joe's and go to a different one or just accept like you know what it sucks, but I'm going to make a different grocery store my new place, yeah, and accepting that you are going to have to change your routine where it's not like you can't go to any grocery store. Or maybe you and your abuser went at 10 AM and you want to go at closing time, like switching up your own routine and being okay with that.

Speaker 2: 36:11

Yeah, and then if it still continues at those in the new places and new times, then you know that there's something else going on and it's important to be aware of.

Speaker 3: 36:22

Right, exactly. And the third issue that you brought up was the overwhelming amount of messages. I do agree that I turned my notifications off. I don't check after a certain amount of time, like my phone automatically, not just for my co-parent, but automatically goes on Do Not Disturb after 8. So I don't get phone calls. I don't get text messages On my phone. I can add in the people that I'm okay with if they call, like family members or whoever, but I have all of my notifications on the app off and I will not look after a certain time or before a certain time. So people want to open them with their morning cup of coffee. Great, if that works for you, awesome. But yeah, it shouldn't be anything outside of an emergency on certain times.

Speaker 3: 37:10

I also think telling them this two days you've sent me 16 messages. Yeah, instead of right away accusing them of this is harassment. I would again go back to the to make sure I don't miss a message. Can we agree to having one weekly updated message? So every Sunday we message at 6 or every 48 hours with our child, we'll send one update. Is that something we can agree on? Again, if they say no, then you're still showing like they sent me 16 messages in 24 hours. I asked for this resolution. They said no. Then I would go from there of telling the courts I need you to step in and stop this person.

Speaker 2: 37:56

The theme in all three of your answers is you taking ownership of what you can control and also finding a way to be reasonable of like. Look, I saw what was happening. I tried to make it more sustainable. I offered this option. They said no. And now this is my new plan. I'm not ignoring it, I just respond two days a week now.

Speaker 3: 38:17

Right. I think if that's like, it's like boundaries, right. We don't go around the world saying these are my boundaries.

Speaker 2: 38:24

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:25

If you know that you only want to respond to every two days, then I would keep that close to your heart and not tell your abuse of X. I'm only going to respond every two days. I would just keep that what your boundary is and then respond. The courts can see off the app, say time and date stamp when it's sent, when it's open, when it's replied. You have it right there.

Speaker 2: 38:46

Is there a method that you typically refer to your clients to document or a way that you've seen translate well to the family court system?

Speaker 3: 38:57

I don't know if there's a system out there that I would say works for documentation. I created my own digital education on documentation, but I do think that clarifying, like we did earlier in this conversation, what is important to document, because otherwise you're going to drown in messages, especially your client that's getting like 16 a day If you think I've to document everything. I am not a mathematician, but 16 messages and 24 hours for 30 days. There's no way the court is going to look at that many messages.

Speaker 2: 39:35

Right.

Speaker 3: 39:36

So on you to sift through, whether categories or maybe one out of the 16 messages or saying they sent me this message and 16 others that are exactly like this in 24 hours. So I think that's also where people like you and I come in to help clients with what evidence is important, what is important of documentation, and that's why it's key to have one-on-one sessions with somebody, because you could watch a YouTube video or whatever on documenting. But that's just a general. Here's how you save your information.

Speaker 2: 40:13

Yeah, and it has to work for you. There's so many systems out there that or ways about it that I've either read about or seen, and whatever system it is, it has to work for you and your work schedule and your family and all of that to be able to be successful in the first place. Absolutely yeah. I'll just share what mine is, and this is the second rendition of it. Initially, my first go around, I was keeping everything in a Google document with notes and screenshots, and it was this very long thing, and then it just became harder to maintain as I got busier and my kid got bigger, and so I have an email address that I email it to and then, when I have time, I organize it in that email address. That only has documentation. It doesn't have anything else.

Speaker 3: 40:59

Yeah, I think I go to it. I think that's really a great way to look at that is it doesn't have to be one system or another system, it's whatever works for you. For me, I have a general idea. I mean I do have a paralegal background as well, so that's pretty helpful. But I also have ADHD where I thrive off of last minute, like let me put all this together and it works for me. I mean, I have a digital way of saving it.

Speaker 2: 41:31

But yeah, it doesn't have to be like perfectly organized for you all the time to still feel like it works for you because you know how it works Right, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, I have really enjoyed our conversation and I know it's going to help so many people and I would really love if you could share what your offerings are and how people can find you, including where you are on social media.

Speaker 3: 41:54

I love coming on here. I'd be behind here all of your Facebook. I am on Instagram and TikTok on next arrow consulting. My TikTok is just blown up, so I'm more on there. I share tons of videos on various topics. I am welcoming of questions on there too. I try and answer people's questions in the comments. I also do have my website, onyx-arrowcom, and I have some digital downloads that people can download, but I mostly hold one on one sessions.

Speaker 2: 42:32

Yeah, I'm with you on that. The one on one sessions just feel like every case is so different and so convoluted and it's so personal that I just feel like with this work it's so helpful just to have that person in your corner. Of course, it can only just point you in the right direction, but that helps so much, I agree, awesome. Well, I absolutely will put all of your links in the show notes so people know how to find you. And again, thank you so much. I'm sure you'll be back.