"Co-parenting" with a Narcissist: Interview with Chantal Contorines

Chantal Contorines, a high conflict co-parenting coach and mentor, joins me to  delve into the complexities of "co-parenting" with a Narcissist. We discuss strategies for being the best advocate for your child.

In this episode, we address: 

• The difficulty in truly co-parenting with a narcissist due to their inability to prioritize children over their ego.
• How parallel parenting often becomes the necessary approach when dealing with a manipulative ex-partner.
• The fact that parenting doesn't end at 18; it's about aiding children to become competent adults who are emotionally validated.

Chantel's instagram is filled with validating and informative content: https://www.instagram.com/chantal.contorines.coaching/

Learn more about her work on her website: https://www.thedivorcehub.ca/

Transcript

Welcome to the You're not crazy podcast hosted by Jessica Knight, a certified life coach who specializes in healing from narcissistic and emotional abuse. This podcast is intended to help you identify manipulative and abusive behavior, set boundaries with yourself and others. And heal the relationship with yourself, so you can learn to love in a healthy way. You can connect with Jessica and find additional resources, content and coaching, add emotional abuse cook dot com. Hello, and as always, thank you so much for being here.

Today, I have a very special guest. You may have seen her on Instagram under her old handle coach the divorce hub, I have Chant, who recently rebranded under her name on Instagram, who was a c parent and divorce coach. I have been wanting to connect with Chant So Long, I love her content, I have been following it for a while as a protective parent, but also, because it brings some lightness at times to the mess of c parenting, with somebody who does not want to c parent. This episode dives deep into what it looks like to c parent with a narcissist. And I say that with air quotes around c parent.

It is c parenting, it is parenting, it is existing. And talk through what that looks like, we will talk through some of the intricacies of how to manage that and how you can show up as your child's best advocate, and the safe and protective parent for your kid. She reminds us that you'll be with your child forever doesn't ends at 18, that's not real, you will be with your child forever. And so if that is true, we are going to be with our child forever. Then let's help them become competent, happy and emotionally validated adults.

I know this episode is going to be really helpful. All of the links that are discussed and how to find Chant will be in the show notes. So if you want to look into 1 of her master classes or if you want to find her content on Instagram or have private coaching, you can just look below and find the link. And as always, you know where to find me. You can find me at high conflict divorce coaching dot com at emotional abuse coach dot com on Instagram at emotional abuse coach, and you can email me jessica at jessica dot com.

Hi, Jean. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me, Jessica. Can you tell us who you are and what you do? If So I'm Chant Contra, and I am a high conflict c parenting coach and mentor.

So what I do is I help parents who have to... And I always use quotes, c parent with narcissist. Learn how to empower and educate themselves so that they can then turn and empower their children. I really wanna help them thrive through this. So that's what I do.

When you say parent and quotes, and you say more about that. If you have any experience with a narcissistic counter. You know that you cannot c parent. You have your best intentions, you would gladly c parent despite what your exes put you through, you would c parent for your children. A narcissist is incapable of c parenting.

To c parent, you need to be able to meet in the middle, you need to be able to put your children first above your own fragile egos, and then narcissist simply isn't able to do that. Their only end goal is to get what they want by any means necessary, even if it's at the expense of their own children. So you'll always have to revert in the parallel parenting. A lot of people are concerned. About that, and they know that that's what's going to happen if they leave.

And then they stay in the relationship thinking that that actually protects the kids more. But you and I know that staying in a relationship like that is only going to destroy us and then therefore, it'll be even harder. Yeah. And that's a sad reality. Right.

So many people state for that reason because they're concerned about what that's gonna look like. If they leave, they're gonna have to share their children with the person who they know is abusive of. Right? Even if the courts don't acknowledge the fact if it abuse happens to... Partner.

It's also going to happen to the children. You and I both know this as the actual reality and stay. Right? But you were gonna die. Literally, you were going to die.

The end result is you were going to be so stressed that you are going to gradually lose yourself until there's literally nothing left to be both. Physically, mentally psychologically logically, spiritually, and your children rental will suffer as a result, and all they're ever gonna know was a hundred percent abuse. Right? Then the... All the air they breathe is abusive.

Whereas if you leave, which is very hard, your children at least, have a fighting chance because in your house, there isn't gonna be abused. In your house is gonna be peace and respect and support and validation, all the things that children need to thrive. We've heard before, and I've definitely seen this on your Instagram page that has so much great content that all children need is 1 parent to show up as non abusive as caring is loving and is full validating as holding space for their kids. Can you speak a little bit to that because I think people care that, and then they go, well, that can't be enough. But it is.

Yeah. It really is. Like... So what that means, and I always tell my clients is that you literally have to prioritize yourself. If you're coming out of this type of relationship, you have been on the lowest rung in terms of priority.

Right? You have put your techs above everybody else, even your children because you knew that if you could appease your partner, everybody in the house could benefit from that. Right? And so everything you did was appease your abuser. And then your children came right after of that, you would put your children above this person, but you were trying to seek safety and security, Right?

For you and for your children. So coming out of this relationship, you are half the person that you used to be. It's very uncomfortable for most people to put themselves first us. But if you don't invest in yourself, be it through expert support. Be it through, just creating support and community around you, replenishing what it's been taken from you for years and years and years.

You simply can't show up as your best parenting sell for your kids. You just can't. You're gonna be reactive, you're gonna be easily triggered and children run when they come back from this type of parent. Mh. Oftentimes bigger parents because they act like the other parent.

They speak their manner, their speech manner. Their intonation of their voices and things that they say are things that your ex used to say to you. Yeah. And that's very triggering. If you aren't taking care of yourself.

And so to be able to pair effectively, you have to invest first into your yourself... Up and it feels very uncomfortable for so many people who have not ever put themselves first. Especially when they're going through divorce, and they just want to protect their children. But you can protect your children if you first are not the captain of your own ship. Your children look to you for guidance.

So if you are, at half mass, if you're not able, you know, if you're just exhausted and mentally emotionally like, spiritually and psychologically, your children will suffer whereas if you are starting the process to heal and take care of yourself and really replenish what been taken from your kids will naturally benefit from that. Just doing that alone. It's huge kids. Yeah. Then they start to see that this is the healthy parent like that consistent.

That parent takes care of themselves. That parent isn't blaming the other parent. Yep. It takes time. I think that's with something...

Yep. You're always playing the long game here. Right? These are not short term solutions when you're dealing with an active counter. This person has had a lifetime to hone their craft manipulation.

Right? They literally have a giant head start you. You have no idea what you're up again. You have no idea what you're dealing with. You have no idea truthfully what they're capable of until you experience it.

Right? And so you need to really take time. Take the time. This takes time. It is not a short term solution.

Actually And just like anything, healing is not linear. Right? You'll take 2 steps forward and then 3 steps back, but so long as you're constantly moving in the direction that you would like to, that's progress, and it might be tiny microscopic steps forward. But it's the continuous belief that you can do this that you have power to, you know, to control your own life that you are not constantly under your exes thumb, and at their back and fall whenever they say job, you have to say how high that you can control, what happens in your home that you can parent at the most beautiful way that you possibly can that your children really come to you and they get the safety and the security and the peace and the calm, the validation, the respect list is endless of what you can infuse your children with. Yeah.

Just like immediately reminds me of, like, this idea, and I think I... I fall into feeling this space. Sometimes too of that week... I need to, like, make up for what there going on in the other home or I need to hold different space or that, like, oh, I lost. We're losing time together because she's just regulated It's like, And I I have a lot of time at my kids, So I know that there's definitely a balance, but I know a lot of other people really...

I mean, obviously, we struggle when they come back because of the situation. Like, you said they're triggering us, but I think this, I... Dia, and I've been talking to a lot of my clients about this? Like, they'll be like, I wanna take? I'm gonna take them camping this week weekend and I'm just like, why don't you just put on a Disney movie, drop yourselves on the couch, and not worry about having to make this over the top to count whatever it was, like, what they need is love, what they need feel like you're there and you're present.

But I think you fall into this trap of trying to compete, not compete. Doing this, like, with the intention to compete, but sometimes especially you're up against a money narcissist. Right? They do lavish things. Right?

They have big over the top things, kids don't remember that stuff. They don't need that stuff. What they need is this feelings. Right? Like, I remember Christmas is being lovely for me as a kid.

Right? I can't remember the gift that I got, but I remember the sentiments that my parents brought the occasion. Right? So that... So that's the reason that Christmas for me is still magical.

Mh. I couldn't tell you... Single gift that I got, maybe got some cabbage patch kids just some my little pony. I don't remember, but just the feeling of safety and peace and love and joy and happiness. And also magic that came with that.

Right? That's what kids remember. You don't remember what you did, but that you were there for them. Right? It doesn't have to be.

And here's the thing. You have to remember that. And we're we're under this erroneous belief that our parenting ends when our kids are 18. But you have and even past your death. If you do it right, if you love your kids all the way, right and show them that you love them and tell it them that you love them, that your parenting never ends.

It continues. Right? For generations. It doesn't end with your child. And your parenting of your child doesn't end when they're 18.

It continues into their adulthood. So, yes, a lot of this time right now might be stuck in the core systems and you might feel really raw, and you have a right to feel rob. If you have a right to feel you know, angry at the system at your ex at the injustice of it all. You didn't sign up for this. Nobody signs up for this.

Right? But your parenting is not done when they're 18. No. No. No.

I don't even think that I don't want it to be. Like, I something personally love Like, I always wanna be supportive of her, you know, and and not she needs and to be that. Always be. The safe person that she comes to. Right?

When she's funny 5 and our heart been broken and by her first loves, she counts to you or when she gets her promotion at her new job, you're, like, 1 of the first people she calls, you know? When she gets married when she has babies and they're your grandkids kids. Right? Like, yeah. Your parenting is a lifetime.

Or Yeah. And I also don't think that it ends in regard to the other person either in regard to the Narcissistic x because you're to be supporting them. Like, I work with people that are going through high conflict divorce and c parenting, but another huge part of my work is working with people overcoming from emotional abuse, and sometimes that emotional abuse is from a parent that is now yeah, you know, and sometimes, yes, it's presenting in their romantic relationship too, but a lot of times, it's an adult that's realizing that they are constantly being gas and c by a parent. And it's always happened. And so it's like, it doesn't end, and a lot of times that parent or the person I'm working with doesn't...

They can't go to the other parent then go to, like, say say moms, the narcissist is in the situation. They can't go to dad and say dad I need your help. Mh. Dad checked out. Yeah.

And so I think about this all the time is, like, I always wanna be that. Person for my kid. It's nothing ends when it when she's 18. She's just out of the available whole system. Yep.

That's the only thing and your c parenting responsibility is over with your apps. That's the only thing. Legally believe you... Like, no longer I had to your apps But you happened upon something. So that's why I created my first master how to safeguard guard your children was, like, literally to empower parents to empower their children because...

Yeah. A child who was raised by... I'm like a narcissist had a lifetime of dealing with that. Has a life... Time of navigating that.

Right? And that's incredibly confusing. It's confusing for adults who have a concept of abuse to be abused right by a narcissist. It's that much more confusing for a child who has no concept of abuse. Right?

And society tells us that our parents love us, a whatever you receive from your parents, that's love. And I truly do not believe that love and of abuse can coexist. And so that master it was created to help parents, support their children so that they can become aware as to what they're dealing with earlier on. So that they're not in their 40 saying, oh, my gosh, my mom's and narcissist and my entire life feels like a betrayal. Right?

That they have the tools early on so that when they're ready, they can say, that's what I'm dealing with. Right? Critical thinking skills, empowering children from an early age. The earlier obviously you start the better off children will be. Although, it's a lifelong process, And, yeah, we are constantly learning this...

You're you're constantly able to create pathways to learning. So, yeah, I just I want to empower children because it's so confusing for children going through this. Right? And you have parents who treats you horribly sometimes and then can be kind sometimes. And that is the most confusing space.

I never experienced that I came from... 2 wonderful parents who love me unconditionally. But as an adult, abuse is so confusing. So how is that for a child? Right.

Exactly. And as an adult, we don't typically see it right away. You know, in our before this. So I I said that. I said, you know, we don't notice it right away.

And I noticed it. We never partner. We would leave right before we did anything when attach us to this person for any a type amount of time. Abusers learn to abuse over time, and they hone their craft just like any craftsman. Right?

And they learn to manipulate and each relationship teaches them how to manipulate in a more adapt way, they can be very very convincing. Right? And they typically move fast though. That's like they're only normal red flag. Not all move fast some are slow, but typically, it's like less...

Like, I love you. Let's move in. Under they're the best. And they make you feel all the things. You actually fall in love with yourself because they're literally telling you all the things that you love, which are, like you.

Like, I'm loyal. I love loyalty. I love, generosity of spirit. I love love, and they're like, me too. Yeah.

And then you think, oh, we're on the same page. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But we're not.

Yeah. At all. I think a lot of people wonder what some signs of counter parenting actually are, which is really, you know, what... What I'm saying there is, like, if the... If the narcissist is manipulating the child.

If there is counter parenting going on to begin to paint you in this dark light that I think this is an area that feels gray because it is gray that they start to just feel like I don't get it. Can you give some examples of what that looks like? Okay. So I'm going to assume that as a protective loving parent, you have a cloth relationship with your child or your children. Right?

Your child... Feel comfortable coming to you, they're happy to see you. They might have transitions that are hard, but that's very typical in normal c parenting relationships relationships with 2 loving healthy parents. Right? Transitions are hard.

Children being moved from house to habits. That's difficult. Let's just call that what it is. But children stop feeling connected to you. They start questioning your worse.

They might even stop calling you mom or dad. Right? They might start calling you by your given name. They start questioning you. Right?

They start saying things like I don't like grandma or grandpa when they've always had a good relationship with grandma or grandpa. If you have siblings, they tend to fight a lot. Right? Because in a narcissistic household, there is no quality. Yeah.

Children always always pitted it against each other. Right? It's much easier to divide and conquer than it is to have children who feel comfortable with each other. Right? And in the hierarchy of children, there's the golden child, there's a scape go child and then there's a missing child in between.

Right Right? So the golden child gets all the extra stuff. Right? But there's a lot of stress that goes on with that. So in that household, those children are constantly competing for any modi come any bread from of affection and attention they possibly can get.

Right? And so that translates into your house as well. Right? They they typically bi a lot more than as normal. And you'll see that they become more critical of people.

So I start they you like the narcissist a bit. So they like, absolutely. Yeah. And you feel like you're being used by proxy by your children? Where your ex left off, your children pick up.

They might not wanna hang out with you as much. They might stay in their rooms. So And if they do hang out with you, they're observing you. They're critical of anything. Your new partner, your work, your worse, your beliefs, your values.

And you'll start to hear them parenting. Your a lot in, like, their beliefs and their values. Things that they might never have said before, they start saying. They might not wanna come back to you. Right?

They might be hesitant to come back to you whereas before, they used to be really excited to come back to you even if transitions were hard, Yeah. And they were reluctant to leave you. Right? So that transition was also hard, like, building up towards going back towards the other parent. A lot of anxiety happens.

Right? A lot of dis regulation happens. They also might feel hyper focused on talking to the other parent during your parent time whereas before, that couldn't care less. Right? Kids have very poor attention spans.

They really get to be immersed in that the here and now. But because the other parent makes them feel guilty, makes them feel obliged, makes them fearful of not talking to them. Right? So they're constantly feeling like they have to text them or call them. And when they're off those phone calls, their behavior changes is towards you again.

Like they feel very distant from you. These are all signs that your child is being counter. And it's really hard to witness. It's very triggering for people who don't know what's happening. Really feel like, You have to understand what's going on for your children, really understand what your ex is doing so that you can then help your children navigate this.

Right? So that... And you also give your children grace because there is little people trying the very best they can to survive in an impossible environment. Yeah. And they're trying to secure their safety by any way possible.

They know that you're the safe parent. They know inherently that their other parent is not safe. And doesn't love them unconditionally. Right? There's condition.

Right, If you do this, I might give you that. If you do this, you might receive that whereas as you, they know they can treat you any which way and you will always show up. So it's truly a testament to your parenting when your children behave frugal towards you. Right? And I have clients who come to me.

Like, I'm just the worst parent ever. When they're with their other parent. You know, they're up on time. They're dressed. They make their own launches.

They make their beds, they walk the dog and pick up the dogs who. Yeah. They're not They're terrified. Yep. And up my house, you know, they sleep in.

They can't find their socks. They can't find their shoes. They don't like what I make them for, you know, for dinner. But I'm like, I'm reading finally relaxed. Yeah.

It's because they can just be kids. Yeah. That's not exceptional parenting happening in the other house. That's fear based parenting. Your children burden are terrified to do the wrong thing.

And so they're hyper vigilant in the other house. So what can they come to your house. They're exhausted. Right? And they just get to be kids.

Mh. And that's what you get to provide for your children. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think that is 1 of the...

What you said is, like, I must be a bad parent. They must... Like, I hear that all the time from people. And it's, like, like, even when you were describing it, it was like, it sounds like this kid finally gave themselves a break. Like, this imaginary kid they gave themselves a break.

They are acting like kids. Yep. Supposed to do. Yeah. Yeah.

That's that's the downfall of having an our parent is that children grow up really fast. Right? They have to become mature beyond their years. They have to become hyper vigilant. Right?

They have to pick up the micro cues that their repair off. Right? Oftentimes just the parent coming down the stairs, a child has to pick up if mom or dad going to be in a good mood right now or in a bad mood right now. And what can I do to secure safety with this parent? Right?

So they become hyper visual, That's exhausting Yeah. It's like you're constantly being stuck by somebody. It's like... As a woman, I was outside, and I am a woman, and I do go outside, and I'm by myself at nighttime, I have to be hyper vigilant. Right.

I have to look where I am, pay attention to my surroundings. Make sure that I'm not being stuck. Follow that I won't be attacked. Right? Mh.

That's like they're constant. Right? I might go for a walk for 10 minutes to get from my house to the bus or the bus up to my house, and I have to be hyper vigilant. And it's exhausting. It's terrifying.

That's they're constant with the other pair. So when they come back to you you need to provide them what the anti of that. Right? All the things that kids need, and they truly just need love. Yeah.

Unconditional supportive love and just acceptance, your kids are gonna come back. Regulated and you are just their safe landing space. And it's unfair for you. Truthfully. It's not fair that you get the brunt of the other parents bad parenting.

But this will pay off in the long run. Yeah. Again, this Your relationship isn't an over 1 this child of 18. Your child will recognize this later on. They're not able to right now.

They're too little. But when they are able to recognize Holy Moly. Yeah. I think a lot of people wonder how they can present that pattern to the family court. You know, because the other parent is, like, they have all these issues when she's when there with mom.

Like, mom can't seem to get them to school on time. And so what are some ways that you suggest framing that 2 family court professionals even your own lawyer, To show what's actually happening. Well, first, you have to do your research. Right? And hopefully, you can find.

Like, I think it's really important. Lawyers are very tricky. I'd like to think that a lot of them try their bass. But again, they just don't know. Yeah.

They they just don't know what this looks like. They don't wanna believe that people can be this brutal. Must be exhausting for them as well. So you can present papers about this. The psychology behind children.

Right? That fear based parenting does not work. Right? We are in this new era now, especially now it's really our time for gentle conscious parenting. Right?

Where... A very old school to be fear based. And a narcissist is fear based on steroid. Right? It's not like the old school.

Like you do it what I say, I, like, otherwise I gonna smack you with like, a ruler. It is really... I am going to take away any affection attention from you, and I'm gonna withdraw that until you comply and give me what I want. Right? And so that really does a lot of damage for children.

So get papers. If you can get papers that your your lawyer is on top of what this looks like psychologically. If your child is in therapy, have their therapist right about this as well. Right? Have them create, like, an affidavit.

Prove a pattern of behavior. It's always about patterns of behavior. Right? So every time your child comes back to you, document. How are they?

How long does it take them to go from this to this. Right? To go from site or flight to a parasympathetic pathetic state. Mh. And really, you have to be thorough, but also concise.

Yeah. Because you don't have a lot of time. No judge is gonna read binder and binder, and you probably have binder and binder of documentation. You have to pull out like, the most recent the first and then key ones in between. Mh.

You... It's really about proving a pattern of behavior. Hopefully, you have a lawyer who's able to articulate like that. Right? That's really their job.

That's really your best bet is to have a lawyer who's articulate. And who's synced in their delivery and is able to get the message across without saying, and I hate to say this, but you can't really say... You can't you can't use the word abuse and family court. Right. You have to prove patterns of behavior, like, giving the judge bread from so that they can say, this parent isn't safe for these children.

And even then, even if you have all the documentation you and I both know, a lot of judges like you know what, 50 50. Yeah. And then I think it's that acceptance piece of, like, okay. This is what I have to work. But this is still a long game.

Yep. Bill can just remain system and provide that soft landing place. Yep. And that's where the radical acceptance has to happen. Right?

It's unfair. The whole thing is fair. Yeah. I I truly do not believe that C should have any contact with a abusive parent at all. I don't...

I I don't think it's in their best interest, I don't think it serves them anything. I think it dis regulates them it causes trauma that can be avoided if they didn't have contact. If they didn't have unsupervised contact with the person who creates this kind of environment for them. And so it's completely unjust, so you need to grieve. Right?

As a protective parent you need to grieve. You need to actively grieve what's been taken from you, how unfair this is, how unjust this is. And then you need to radically accept. What you can control and what you can't control. If you get stuck in that bitter spot, then your ex just keeps winning.

Right? And then you can't move forward, you can't grow. You can't heal. You can't create a life that you and your children deserve. And you have to radically accept, what is unfair and unjust, and then really pour all of your focus into what you can control what you can do in your home to create the best home life possible for your children.

That's it. Yeah. As you said, the radical acceptance, which I think is such an important 0.1 thing that that reminded me of is the projections that they will make on us that can be highly triggering. Oh they accuse you of everything, but they're guilty of doing. I always say Yeah.

Listen to bought their accusing you out because that's the closest you're ever going to get who confession. Right? They'll accuse you being high conflict. They'll accuse you of making c parenting very difficult. They'll accuse you being inflexible.

They'll accuse you being narcissistic, a cheater, a bad parent, You know, loose morals. You name it, whatever they're doing, they're gonna accuse you of doing, and that's very tricky, especially in the early stages of your appealing, Especially when you're not aware of what they're doing or who you're up against. So many people leave, and don't actually know that they have just left a narcissist. Right? It's true...

I think the Internet has been good this way. It's really opened up Yeah. Knowledge at our fingertips. Right? You don't have to have a Phd.

You don't have to go to library. You can go on Instagram. You can even Google symptoms. Right? Feel anxious every time I talk to my Total parent.

Is never wrong. Always makes me feel inferior, and then all of a sudden, you have a diagnosis. Right? Right, I don't diagnose. You don't diagnose.

And people always say Oh, we can get right about matter of behavior. Right? And we are not diagnosed a narcissist. We're not saying your ex is a narcissist. But if the patterns look like that, if it walks like a duck and pops like a duck It's most likely a duck.

Right? I don't need to go to a psychologist and so many people I get people in my dms all the time saying, you will not qualified to yell. Diagnosed people. I'm like, I'm not even trying to diagnose people. Well in a help.

That's all, like, 1 percent of the population that has nurses and walking know what because they tell everyone they don't have it. Those are erroneous stat. Spin usually both know that a narcissist very rarely. I don't even believe, but it's like 1 percent of the population will ever go to therapy will ever go to psychologist and actually be open and vulnerable and actually want to change. Right?

If they do go to therapy, it's to pool people. Right. It's to either make you feel inferior as their partner, or to tell people how woke they are. Look at me. I'm in therapy, Healed, I'm a good person.

You'll probably wanna date me because I've been in therapy. Right? But it's superficial therapy. It's just just lip service. They haven't actually delved into any issues beyond the superficial stuff.

Like I'm just having a hard time in life right now, and I'd like to have a little bit more happiness as opposed to. I really think I use and abused people. So here that I have a most tendencies. Yeah. Here's a list of things that she said.

I would like to talk about these things. Please call me out every time I get defensive. Wouldn't that be amazing. What that? I mean, and they're never gonna do with this.

Right? So we we say there's, like a rough estimate as to how many people in the world have this. But I think that's actually grossly underrepresented. I think we have a lot more floating around, walking around than anybody is comfortable even admitting. Yeah.

Because people are very tricky. They're they're tricky to be partnered with, They're tricky to be raised by, to work with to have as your employer to have this your teacher, your friend, your peer, your colleague. These people create. Chaos everywhere they go. Everywhere they go.

They truthfully, they'd like they thrive on chaos. And so that's why in their house, it's gonna be chaos. Right? Their house is gonna be chaotic. And your house has to be the anti ent.

Right? Peaceful. Your house is peaceful. Mh. I think a lot of people might judge themselves.

Was, like, oh, my house isn't peaceful. I'm exhausted. It's more messy. They have more times. They have the kid less and Yeah.

That doesn't matter because you're validating your child's emotions. Yep. Peaceful doesn't mean that your house isn't messy. Your house could be a pigs side. Right?

Again, especially if you're not sick X has money, they probably have helped. Right? They probably also re partnered and have the support of another adult in your house. In, like, in their house to help them, you know, ferry kids to and from doctor's appointments in school, they can probably even at higher help to clean their house and do the gardening. Right?

Your house might not look like at their house your house is probably actually smaller than their house. Kids don't care about that stuff. Right? It's how you make them feel like, literally, you help your children c regulate, which means for you to be able to help your children regulate. You first need to be regulated.

Right? Yeah. Har back to what I said at the very beginning, you need to invest time and money and energy into your own healing process truthfully. Your children without even opening your mouth can feel that. Right?

Your ex dis regulates them without even opening their mouth because their entire nervous system is completely regulated. Right? And they dis regulate everybody pumps in contact with them. So you have to be opposite. You have to really focus on ensuring that as often as possible if you're human, you're gonna make mistakes.

Right? You you're gonna be triggered, You're gonna fly off the hand, you're gonna lose your patience. All good parents do. We're not perfect. You don't expect perfection.

But when you do, you actually apologize and you repair and you talk your children through what that looks like. Right? You validate your child's experience. You explain why you acted the way you did, but it's an explanation, but not an excuse. Yeah.

And then you actively repair. You show your children what that looks like you model what that looks like. Something they'll never get in the other house either. Yeah. Yeah.

They're so often. I'm sure you've heard this before. I was like, I've heard this so many times that they'll be like, well, the other parent said, I... My tears are fake. I have fake tears.

These aren't real tears. And it's like... I'm a drama queen or I'm too emotional. Kids wanna I shut to add little boy. I'm just a sad...

Like, it's like, no. You are a human being with feelings. And if you have feelings. Like, you're you have a right to have feelings because as you and I know, even if a child is acting out, and maybe they are having a tantrum. There's another need underneath there.

They're not have to be a 3 year old. You know? What 8 year old is not trying to act like they're 3. There is an 8 year old that's not processing what their... Because they don't have the tools and they're trying to figure.

Adults don't have the tools. I know. I know see. Like, we expect more from small children who have cognitive be developed the tools and the strategies to be able to cope with big emotions. Right?

And all emotions are big emotions for till and truthfully. Right? And we expect more from them. We expect them to comply. We expect them to always be yes and happy.

We... And I think now we're starting as a society to say actually, you know, All emotions are good emotions, truthfully They are. Mh. I teach to my clients. I teach this in my master class.

All emotions are good to most how you express those emotions that make it a healthy expression or unhealthy expression anger. Anger gets a really bad bad rap, But anger is just an unmet need coming and manifesting as anger. But is how you express that anger. Right? Some people suppress it, super unhealthy causes long term damage to your body and your mind, or or are they rage?

Also not healthy. Right? So how do you deal with anger? How do you express the anger in healthy ways? You can go for a run?

You can punch a punching bag. Right? You can get your anger out in a healthy way, and and articulate. So people are very adept articulate. I'm feeling real...

And so you as a parent model this for your child. And how do you express an anger for and healthy ways because what they get from their other parent? They're your your your counter parent is very unhealthy. Right? Their anger is rage.

Their anger is simmering deceiving, and it doesn't even have to be loud. Right? They're... It's it's also very scary when your parent gets quiet. And it's a silent heating, and you know that your...

That your parent is raging internally even if they never say anything to you. And then so you have to... Like, tomorrow. Like, I'm actually feeling really angry right now. Right?

And I a right to feel angry. That was not okay. But you're not expressing your your anger in an unhealthy way. You're not raging at your child. You're not suppressing your anger.

You're modeling that they have a right... Do feel angry. Just like you can feel angry. You can feel stat sad. Right, sadness.

When you cry, crying is your body's way to regulate. Right? It's a dis regulated nervous system who meet... That needs to regulate, and tears literally help you regulate. So crying gets a bad rap.

It's you actually very, and it's your body's way to cope. Yeah. Then to regulate, come back to a parasympathetic that state. In a fast way, like, you cry, and then you release, and then you can recalibrate. And it's also like a signal of like, oh, I'm crying.

But I'm getting something out. And now I can myself what I need Because if I'm getting this response, and maybe I wasn't taking care of myself. Maybe I didn't slow down, you know, or maybe maybe I do just need to release this and then I move on with it. Yeah. Sometimes my daughter will be, like, don't cry about that.

It's not a big deal, and I'm like, I'm not bragging about it that it... I'm not making it a big deal. I am overwhelmed, and this is my body's way of getting it out. Yeah. That's To say that's help.

That's healthy expression, like you're teaching your daughter, but it's not bad to cry. Right. Just okay to cry. Yeah. It's healthy.

This was so informative. I know people are gonna get a ton from this, and there's... So many other questions that I have. So I hope that I can have you back in the future. And left you.

I mean, it only took us how long? I know. It's A93 months to find a date month 2 time zones, and multiple kids and court. Yeah. Figured it out.

Did it. Yeah. So if we start now, maybe we could talk in December. You know, maybe if we start now, we could do it in my birthday month in November. So let's start talking about a bit now.

So yeah. That's well my daughter's birthday in November too. So that sounds, like, at the last correctly. Yeah. Can you share with us, help people can find you what your offerings are, you've named the master that I will put in the show notes.

If you could just name it again so that way people look for that if they're like, oh, my god. Have to define this. Yeah. So, you can find on Instagram. That's really active community, and I love my Instagram community because it's so supportive, like, really supportive.

People are constantly helping each other. But and that's Chant Con coaching, dots in between so chant dot con dot coaching. You can find me on my website. I'd redesigning it and relaunch it. It is the divorce have docs c.

It will be changed. And my offerings are... So I have 2 master classes now. I have how to safeguard guard your children the Master. And the next 1 is gonna be August twentieth.

Mh And it is... It gives you 15 actionable tools and strategies to be able to empower and educate yourself. And your children, because I have a lifetime of dealing with this. And I really believe that being proactive is key. And then the next 1 that's just is launching now, and it's gonna be August 12 is how to tell if your children are being brain and what you can do about that.

Again, it's to empower you. And Right? Because all of these counter parents will always try to turn your children against you to what degree they do depends on them, but they all. They all try to dis you, turn your children against you. So this master class is...

Set into 3 segments. The first 1 is what your ex is doing, all tax of parenting and manipulation. How that presents in your children so that you can pay attention to your children and pick up on the cues, and then what you can do about it, again, action proactive I really believe that pro action is key. And then I also do private coaching. So I have an 8 week program for about a c parent with a narcissist.

Yeah. So that's what I offer. How a c parent with a narcissist? Yeah. Again, in quotations.

I know I know. There's no parenting happening. Yeah. Out of parent? Yeah.

Period. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, it was wonderful happening. Thank you so so much for... Thank you so much for tiffany me. Hope that we can do this soon. Again.

Yeah.